SIEMENS

You develop environmentally friendly products, yet you don’t think much of the idea of sustainability. Why?

Braungart: The conventional interpretation of sustainability is boring. It’s all about reducing, minimizing, and saving. In other words, do everything the same way as before, just not as badly. Not as badly is not the same as good, however. That’s why I prefer intelligent wastefulness. Instead of developing less damaging things, we should be developing useful things.

How would this work?

Braungart: It’s really not that difficult once you start to redefine the concept of waste. Take nature as an example. The world’s ants consume as much energy as 30 billion people, but only produce biomass — there’s no waste. We could do this too if we created products designed for a never-ending cycle. This concept is known as cradle-to-cradle, and with it no valuable raw materials are ever lost. Instead, they are used over and over again. Experience shows that this works. EPEA, for example, issues cradle-to-cradle certificates to new products every year.

For example?

Braungart: It’s already possible to buy cradle-to-cradle carpets that are not only free of contaminants but can also remove fine dust from the air. We’re also working on a new type of concrete that can clean the surrounding air. In addition, there are cradle-to-cradle seat coverings in the Airbus 380 that contain absolutely no harmful substances — in fact, you could even eat them. After their useful life, they can be converted to valuable peat. T-shirts that can later be used as compost are also now on the market.

But you can’t convert everything to compost.

Braungart: What can’t be used as humus should be designed in a manner ensuring it can be recycled over and over again without any loss of quality. This could be done with everything from office chairs to sneakers. Instead, however, most materials today are generally recycled down, and the result is lower and lower quality. Not only that, they often contain a lot of pollutants. Even a classical ecological product like recycled toilet paper can contaminate millions of liters of water.

Would a cradle-to-cradle world produce absolutely no waste?

Braungart: Yes: Even automobile exhaust gas could serve as a source of valuable raw materials. At the moment, for example, we’re working on a technology that can convert nitrogen oxide exhaust into valuable fertilizer.

How would complex products like TVs or computer chips be recycled?

Braungart: We simply have to reinvent our products. Of course, at the beginning, there is the pure market-economy question, which is: What do customers want? Well, they certainly don’t want a TV that contains more than 4,000 different contaminants; they just want to watch a movie or a show. Consumers want clean clothes, but not necessarily a washing machine. In such cases, it makes sense to sell the utility rather than the product. It’s like a kind of ecological leasing — and if the products were to remain owned by the manufacturer, completely different types of materials could be used to make them. These would be the best materials rather than the cheapest. Right now, for example, we’re working with an automaker to build a car body whose components will be glued rather than welded together. The vehicle won’t be sold; instead customers will purchase 100,000 km of use. After they’re done, the body will be immersed in a solution containing bacteria that will break down the adhesive, allowing the components to be used again.

Isn’t the production of such high-quality products expensive?

Braungart: Experience has shown that companies can profit quickly from their cradle-to-cradle products. Airbus has cut costs by 20 % with its new seat coverings, for example, because it no longer has to dispose of the old upholstery as hazardous waste. Occupational safety costs are also lower — and in general, cradle-to-cradle products sell well because people don’t mind spending money on them.

Does your institute issue cradle-to-cradle certificates to companies as well as products?

Braungart: When implemented, the cradle-to-cradle concept becomes part of corporate culture. Those who work for a cradle-to-cradle company tend to be proud of the fact. The certificate also serves as a recruiting ad for young scientists. Ultimately, our award brings together those experts who are the driving forces behind intelligent innovations. In that sense the cradle-to-cradle certificate is also a communication platform.

Steven Spielberg is also a big believer in cradle-to-cradle. He’s given your institute $2 million and is producing a documentary film about your work.

Braungart: I can’t comment on that due to contractual issues. But I can say that there are many celebrities in the U.S. who publicly promote the cradle-to-cradle concept, including Cameron Diaz, Brad Pitt, and Susan Sarandon. Arnold Schwarzenegger also recently declared California to be a cradle-to-cradle state.

Why is Germany, your home country, so unenthusiastic about the concept?

Braungart: Many Germans excessively romanticize nature and quickly view technical and chemical innovations as a threat. Still, it’s possible to look at cradle-to-cradle rationally, as they do in Japan, where it’s synonymous with quality assurance. In Japan, a product that contains pollutants and that can’t be recycled is simply considered a bad product.

Do you expect the concept of never-ending cycles to take hold over the next few decades?

Braungart: I’m optimistic because more and more young, motivated engineers and scientists are becoming top managers. In addition, developments in some countries are proceeding much faster than we anticipated. The Netherlands, for example, is well on its way to becoming a cradle-to-cradle nation everywhere from its kindergartens to its royal palaces. We have a lot of projects there, in which we’re working on new cradle-to-cradle ideas with construction and civil engineering companies, electronics manufacturers, and government agencies. Cradle-to-cradle products also sell very well in the Netherlands.

Could legislation promote the concept?

Braungart: No. People have to want to buy these products. They have to believe in the cradle-to-cradle concept. As this happens, a popular phrase will acquire enhanced meaning: Yes, we can.